Comments on: Why Iraqis Should Read The Book of Mormon: Terrorism, Secret Combinations, and the Surge http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge The Weblog of J. Max Wilson Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:49:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: tim http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-529 tim Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:07:05 +0000 I studied this subject a little a couple years back and found some good references in "A Companion to your Book of Mormon Study" by Ludlow. From page 232, "Although the Nephites were commanded by the Lord not to begin a war, they were also counseled by him: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies. (Alma 43:46). The Lord further instructed the nephites: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. (Alma 43:47). Thus the nephites felt justified in resisting the invasion of the Lamanites, so long as the Nephites were fighting for their lives, their homes, and their liberty." and from page 235, "Although the Npehites weree permitted by the Lord to fight for their rights and liberties when attacked by the Lamanites, nevertheless they had been warned by the Lord "never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives. (also see 3Ne3:20) So, from the context of the Book of Mormon, the Lord absolutely did support the Nephites in war they felt was needed to protect their liberties and families. The question for us becomes weather or not we think Iraq fits in this same context. I personally have wondered some about the whole Afganistan vs. Iraq thing, and still don't know how to sort that out. I guess what we can say is that we can't say definitely that Iraq isn't more germane to our defense, as these kind of things tend to have many layers of secrets the general public will never know about. One thing that stands out in the verses directly dealing with war is the extent to which the Nephites concerned themselves with the fact that many of their enemies would be killed and thus stop their opportunity to repent in this life, should they change. From this standpoint, it makes it hard for me to justify Iraq based on the evils of their former dictator, Saddam, as some have tried to do. I don't think it is the job of America to try to correct the wrongs of countries and dicatators around the world; as the Lord makes clear many times, these kind of things often bring to pass his purposes. How much pain and suffering would we stop without having the grand perspective of the Lord, and the ultimate effects these things bring to pass in the lives of his children? I studied this subject a little a couple years back and found some good references in “A Companion to your Book of Mormon Study” by Ludlow. From page 232, “Although the Nephites were commanded by the Lord not to begin a war, they were also counseled by him: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies. (Alma 43:46). The Lord further instructed the nephites: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. (Alma 43:47). Thus the nephites felt justified in resisting the invasion of the Lamanites, so long as the Nephites were fighting for their lives, their homes, and their liberty.” and from page 235, “Although the Npehites weree permitted by the Lord to fight for their rights and liberties when attacked by the Lamanites, nevertheless they had been warned by the Lord “never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives. (also see 3Ne3:20)
So, from the context of the Book of Mormon, the Lord absolutely did support the Nephites in war they felt was needed to protect their liberties and families. The question for us becomes weather or not we think Iraq fits in this same context. I personally have wondered some about the whole Afganistan vs. Iraq thing, and still don’t know how to sort that out. I guess what we can say is that we can’t say definitely that Iraq isn’t more germane to our defense, as these kind of things tend to have many layers of secrets the general public will never know about. One thing that stands out in the verses directly dealing with war is the extent to which the Nephites concerned themselves with the fact that many of their enemies would be killed and thus stop their opportunity to repent in this life, should they change. From this standpoint, it makes it hard for me to justify Iraq based on the evils of their former dictator, Saddam, as some have tried to do. I don’t think it is the job of America to try to correct the wrongs of countries and dicatators around the world; as the Lord makes clear many times, these kind of things often bring to pass his purposes. How much pain and suffering would we stop without having the grand perspective of the Lord, and the ultimate effects these things bring to pass in the lives of his children?

]]> By: Kim Rowlands http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-304 Kim Rowlands Sat, 10 May 2008 17:12:38 +0000 Thanks for your post. I am doing a paper on Insurgency and Guerrilla Warfare and came across this paragraph In latter-day scriptures, secret combinations are groups of conspirators who plot and initiate works of darkness for evil and selfish purposes. Secret combinations have existed since the days of Cain (Moses 5:51). Satan is their author (2 Ne. 26:22), power and gain are their motives (Ether 8:15, 25), and conspiracy is their method of operation (Hel. 6:22–24). Secret combinations may be brotherhoods, groups, societies, or governments. They operate in secrecy to perform evil acts for the purpose of gaining power over the minds and actions of people. Mormon Encyclopedia It supports the thesis you make and to be frank with you that the definition of insurgency is almost identical with secret combinations. Terrorism is a modus operandi used in insurgencies as well as guerrilla war such as Hizb’allah uses I think the Book of Mormon warning needs to be extended far and wide to all peoples, especially when it is these secret combinations tearing down good governments and it’s people everywhere Thanks again<br /><br />Kim R Thanks for your post. I am doing a paper on Insurgency and Guerrilla Warfare and came across this paragraph

In latter-day scriptures, secret combinations are groups of conspirators who plot and initiate works of darkness for evil and selfish purposes. Secret combinations have existed since the days of Cain (Moses 5:51). Satan is their author (2 Ne. 26:22), power and gain are their motives (Ether 8:15, 25), and conspiracy is their method of operation (Hel. 6:22–24). Secret combinations may be brotherhoods, groups, societies, or governments. They operate in secrecy to perform evil acts for the purpose of gaining power over the minds and actions of people. Mormon Encyclopedia

It supports the thesis you make and to be frank with you that the definition of insurgency is almost identical with secret combinations.

Terrorism is a modus operandi used in insurgencies as well as guerrilla war such as Hizb’allah uses

I think the Book of Mormon warning needs to be extended far and wide to all peoples, especially when it is these secret combinations tearing down good governments and it’s people everywhere

Thanks again

Kim R

]]> By: dave http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-302 dave Wed, 02 Jan 2008 00:04:30 +0000 While I agree there are many parallels between the terrorists and the Gadianton Robbers, I don’t think the Surge resembles the Nephite response to the Robbers at all. My impression is that the strategy (in the BoM) was almost entirely defensive. In fact, there’s that moment when the people want to go and seek out the Robbers and they are counseled that if they did so, they would be delivered into the Robbers hands. So I think maybe we could learn as well as the Iraqis. While I agree there are many parallels between the terrorists and the Gadianton Robbers, I don’t think the Surge resembles the Nephite response to the Robbers at all. My impression is that the strategy (in the BoM) was almost entirely defensive. In fact, there’s that moment when the people want to go and seek out the Robbers and they are counseled that if they did so, they would be delivered into the Robbers hands.

So I think maybe we could learn as well as the Iraqis.

]]> By: J. Max Wilson http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-301 J. Max Wilson Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:12:52 +0000 Stephanie & Danithew: Thanks. Bruce: Thanks. I have heard Dan speak about Gadianton robbers and Guerrilla warfare. Fascinating stuff. Clark: Good Point about the Militias. For a facinating, and I think related look at Militias as Secret Combinations, check out this disturbing article in the Washington Post from back in March 2007 about Militias in the slums of Rio de Janeiro Brazil: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/27/AR2007032702337.html?nav=rss_print/asection">In Rio’s Slums, Militias Fuel Violence They Seek to Quell</a> Stephanie & Danithew: Thanks.

Bruce: Thanks. I have heard Dan speak about Gadianton robbers and Guerrilla warfare. Fascinating stuff.

Clark: Good Point about the Militias. For a facinating, and I think related look at Militias as Secret Combinations, check out this disturbing article in the Washington Post from back in March 2007 about Militias in the slums of Rio de Janeiro Brazil: In Rio’s Slums, Militias Fuel Violence They Seek to Quell

]]> By: danithew http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-300 danithew Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:08:46 +0000 ... I do not believe that the war was a mistake. I still think it was the right course of action. I was in favor of the war before it began and I had no illusions at that time that it would be easy, short, or wildly successful. That’s a good summation of my feelings on the war as well. … I do not believe that the war was a mistake. I still think it was the right course of action. I was in favor of the war before it began and I had no illusions at that time that it would be easy, short, or wildly successful.

That’s a good summation of my feelings on the war as well.

]]> By: Stephanie http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-299 Stephanie Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:08:10 +0000 Fantastic post. Fantastic post.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-298 Clark Goble Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:36:22 +0000 I tend to agree, however one way we’re “winning” finally (and tentatively) is by supporting grass roots groups. Often local militias. However this might well be seen as merely picking one secret combination above an other. I tend to agree, however one way we’re “winning” finally (and tentatively) is by supporting grass roots groups. Often local militias. However this might well be seen as merely picking one secret combination above an other.

]]> By: bfwebster http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/why-iraqis-should-read-the-book-of-mormon-terrorism-secret-combinations-and-the-surge/comment-page-1#comment-297 bfwebster Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:37:02 +0000 An excellent, thoughtful analysis. We’re back to Hugh Nibley’s famous quote: “Woe unto the generation that understands the Book of Mormon.” (<em>An Approach to the Book of Mormon</em>, 1957.) If you don’t already have it, you may want to track down a copy of <em>Warfare in the Book of Mormon</em> (FARMS, 1990). [Actually, you’ll probably want to find a library copy or one belonging to a friend; Amazon.com lists 9 used copies at prices starting at $140 and going up to $300. Ouch! Looks like it’s time for FARMS to reprint this one; in the meantime, I’ll hold on to my copy.] Anyway, Dan Peterson has a chapter in there entitled “The Gadianton Robbers as Guerrilla Warriors”, and there are other chapters that touch upon your themes, but in a general sense. I think your fit to the specific situation in Iraq is dead on. ..bruce.. An excellent, thoughtful analysis. We’re back to Hugh Nibley’s famous quote: “Woe unto the generation that understands the Book of Mormon.” (An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 1957.)

If you don’t already have it, you may want to track down a copy of Warfare in the Book of Mormon (FARMS, 1990).

[Actually, you’ll probably want to find a library copy or one belonging to a friend; Amazon.com lists 9 used copies at prices starting at $140 and going up to $300. Ouch! Looks like it’s time for FARMS to reprint this one; in the meantime, I’ll hold on to my copy.]

Anyway, Dan Peterson has a chapter in there entitled “The Gadianton Robbers as Guerrilla Warriors”, and there are other chapters that touch upon your themes, but in a general sense. I think your fit to the specific situation in Iraq is dead on. ..bruce..

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